Note: Shortly before the end of the interview, my wifi went down unexpectedly. However, it’s my opinion that the material here is still valuable and, though abrupt, the end of the interview came at a good time when we were planning to wrap up anyway.
In this interview, Tom and I discuss CBD, the non-psychoactive chemical in cannabis plants which appears to provide a host of mental and physical health benefits. Tom is looking into CBD as something for his own wellness brand to begin providing. Our conversation discusses why we are looking at this solution, and also branches out to many other topics we feel are relevant to true health.
Please enjoy this interview by Total Motion 360.
Keenan: Today we’re going to talk about CBD, something we’ve both been looking into as a product for Total Motion 360.
Tom: Yeah I think with medical marijuana that’s one thing. My wife’s sister lost her life to breast cancer, and at the time they were looking into medical marijuana but used chemotherapy instead. Personally I think chemotherapy does more damage than benefit for most people, I’m a holistic type of guy and I’m more likely to go to Mexico to use holistic treatments than just chemo here. I believe the body has an innate ability to heal. Meditation, mindfulness, diet, all of these things are involved.
Keenan: Yeah I’m a big believer that how we think affects our health. That said I also believe the environment we are in is the worst it’s been in terms of toxins and diet and outside factor. I was listening to Dr. Kelly Starrett in a podcast, and he said when he was a kid, the odds of being diabetic as a minor was 1 in 4000. Today, independent of ethnicity or economic background, it’s 1 in 4. If you’re hispanic or african american and an adult, 2 out of 3 odds are you’re diabetic.
I think we have a huge amount of control over this, I think what we put in our body is a huge piece of this problem. We need to change how we think of diet down to the level of nutrition. Look at what we have in schools. Back in the day, grains were subsidized, but now all the foods that exist as a result are filled with processed crap. I don’t think grains are healthy, but even if they were, less people would eat doritos if they were expensive, and the reason they’re cheap is because of subsidized industry.
Where I see CBD coming into this argument is that it breaks that paradigm of subsidized or monopolized industries. Big Pharma needs you to be sick so you’ll pay for them. Big Agriculture makes crap food because it’s subsidized.
We need to look at alternative solutions.
As far as CBD goes, so, CBD is one chemical in cannabis plants like hemp and marijuana that seems to be the main provider of health benefits but without making you feel high.
What we see with CBD is that it helps many people miraculously, and some people not at all, and that seems to be related to genetics. Based on your genetics, you may get huge use out of a compound like CBD, but regardless, it appears to be damn safe.
So you might not get any benefit, but for many people it’s just about miraculous. It can help with inflammation, anxiety, sleep, etc. Heck, I found out about it through the lifting community. I knew crossfitters and powerlifters using it to recover faster from workouts.
Tom: Is that what they were doing too? That makes sense. See, for me, I’m interested in it because it’s a natural product. Everyone is different and reacts different but I’m interested because it’s something we can use instead of relying on big pharma. They don’t care about us. Like we’ve talked about, they just want you on their product and if you’re sick, you’ll use it. They really don’t give a shit about us.
Keenan: Yes, absolutely. Any time you have a monopoly, they will control the narrative and no longer care about the wellbeing of customers as long as they can get as much money as possible. They control the narrative, they brainwashed everyone including themselves that “Hey! This is good for you!”
When in reality it is just the most lucrative thing.
I think any essential thing that gets monopolized will turn into that. It’s going to become a number, and then you’ll be told that things are good for you while being given the cheapest and most addictive product.
I mean look at the opioid crisis. For how big of a problem it is, it is talked about so little and Doctors still give out what is essentially heroine for minor injuries.
Tom: I can’t believe the damage that’s been done. There’s lawsuits coming out now but a huge percentage of the populations is addicted in some form or fashion. To me it’s mind boggling. What I hear from my son and his generation is they all know somebody who is doing heroine.
I thought smoking pot back in the day was the rebellious thing, but you look at the government and they finally see the benefits of marijuana as a solution to opioids and they can tax the hell out of it.
Keenan: So here’s a fun tidbit on that. With how the government used to deny all benefits of marijuana or CBD, they actually took out a patent on CBD because if it’s anti-oxidant effects even though at the exact same time they were claiming publically that CBD has no health benefits.
Basically with one hand they were waving a sign in our faces saying “no benefits” while they were using the other hand to take out a patent because of promising health benefits of the compound.
Fortunately, they didn’t patent oils and tinctures, which is why all these private companies can sell CBD today, but yeah.
I guess that’s what’s great about the free internet though. The reason you see lawsuits about the opioid crisis and people know about this stuff is because there’s this way whistleblowers can spread the word. Even in the case of google and others censoring their content, they aren’t Big Pharma, so you still find good info there when the government messes up.
There are health movements happening independent of what these monopolies want you to believe. It’s so cheap to spread information now that these companies can’t rely on the difficulty of getting on a TV interview or paying for an advertisement to protect them.
Tom: One of the great things about the internet is you can become your own doctor. There’s so much information out there, when I’m solving a problem I always get online. Like with CBD, I do my own research rather than just taking the word of some guy in a white coat trying to push it on me.
I think we’ve talked about this. If some guy doesn’t look like me, move his body, care for his health, I’m more likely to listen to someone that looks healthy.
Keenan: Right, if your doc is overweight and has heart disease, why is he your cardiologist?
Tom: * Tom laughs* right! Exactly!
Keenan: What people don’t realize is that the medical industry’s point is not health. It’s not made to make you healthy. It’s great at keeping you from dying. It’s great at treating acute infectious disease, and at surgery, but healthcare professionals just aren’t in the business of healthcare. They’re in the business of disease care.
No one has a Xanax deficiency.
I’m going out on a limb here, but other than antibiotics, we know of natural plant compounds for all the things pharmaceuticals do. Lion’s mane mushroom, which, by the way, is not psychedelic, grows new neurons in the brain when you take it as a supplement. The only other that does this is the psychedelic mushroom Psylocybin.
Tom: Yeah I believe Laird Hamilton, the big wave surfer who has a superfood company, uses lion’s mane. Aside from that, other research is showing that the psychedelic mushrooms have health benefits.
Keenan: Yeah I mean, with that, MAPS did a study where people with terminal cancer took Psylocibin. Half of them felt significant reduction of their death anxiety. The rest had no negative effect.
I think there is something to be said about going through a deeply spiritual experience. Most of the people I know who are really healthy, have also gone through some significant internal exploration.
I think you’ve got to have some connection to your soul. There was a great quote by a famous comedian, I can’t remember who it was, but he said “I don’t get stressed out. I grow a tumor instead.”
Tom: That’s both hilarious and sad. Holistic means to look at the whole person, and that’s why I go to holistic doctors. We need to actually look at not only things like your diet and exercise that regular docs don’t look at. We3 also need to look at your life. Did you get out of that terrible job? Are you in a bad relationship with your spouse.
Nowadays all the advertisements are about pharmaceuticals. Nothing looks at the side effects. The ads show these happy people and all the brightness and all this, meanwhile in the side effects they’re mentioning rectal bleeding.
Keenan: Oh it’s such a terrible misdirection. I remember seeing those commercials as a kid, and they worked on me! I remember hearing all the side-effects and first being shocked. “Side effects include death!” But then I’d think “Well, the people in this commercial look so happy. I bet it’s pretty safe and they just have to say that.”
In reality those side effects are very real depending on the medication.
Tom: I do wonder if this will happen with CBD. Maybe there will be CBD commercials.
Keenan: If they did it would probably have to be from the FDA. To say something has a medical benefit, it’s pretty much gotta be by the FDA. That’s why you don’t see commercials for things like magnesium. Tons of researched health benefits, but it’s not a patented pharmaceutical so the FDA doesn’t sell it or offer it themselves.
They don’t really offer anything they can’t monopolize.
They aren’t gonna make magnesium products for people or natural antioxidant blends or supplements. Nor will they say those things have great health benefits.
Tom: I see all these people doing crazy things like shortening their stomachs with surgeries and all these crazy shortcuts.
Keenan: Oh I think in 20 or 30 years, my kids are going to have a huge advantage in life just from being healthy. They’ll look left and right and it’ll look like that movie Wall-E with everyone fat and floating in hover chairs. I’ve heard people talk about going to Disney world 20 years ago, and then going recently, and seeing how much fatter everyone is now.
I think either we’re gonna have a major worldwide collapse that sets us back 300 or 400 years technologically, or we’re going to have to adopt healthy practices just to save the planet.
I will say this, you hear about some things that are dire and everyone ignores it. I don’t think that’s happening with health. When the stat came out that this generation has a lower life expectancy than their parents, I think everyone is actually talking about it. People really are learning and caring about this stuff.
As much as I worry about how things might go, I do also believe that health consciousness is a real, big, growing movement. It’s not quite the majority yet but I think in 10 or 15 years it might be.
Tom: It might be, but it will be grass-roots because the government is not involved. Until they find a way to make trillions of dollars they’re not going to really get involved.
That’s where maybe CBD, because it’s legal, and cannabis is becoming legal, might be a first step. The government doesn’t care but they see they can tax it. Look at all the deaths from alcohol. They just go along with it, just like they went along with cigarettes. Now they don’t but people are still smoking so.
One of the reasons I wanted to make this product: Total Motion 360, is not just about the fitness side. I want to bring other tools to the toolbox like CBD oil and other holistic tools. I want to create a hub for people to become holistically healthy, and this is something more natural.
I think there’s some real benefits here. Heart health, reducing acne, alleviating cancer related symptoms, depression and anxiety. These are just some things I know about it.
There are some natural things out there that can help. It’s just like the foods we eat. My wife and I do all our own cooking and shopping and try to make everything. People still call me crazy for bringing my food with me, but I’m like “Hey, that’s why you don’t look like me.” If you want to be 40 50 or 60 pounds overweight then go eat a burger from Wendy’s.
Keenan: It blows my mind because you look and are so healthy, in your 60s! Yet people don’t connect the way you live. What’s funny is that people think it’s so difficult, but they go do these programs like weightwatchers and the biggest loser. They seem like shortcuts, but these programs are just as hard!
Tom: Well what you’re missing is that these programs are designed to fail. I’ve met so many people who have done these programs and they just don’t see results. They get on it, lose weight, get off, gain weight. I know people that have done these programs for 30 years and they look the same! It’s just like with the pharmaceutical companies.
I saw an ad for this machine that you pay 30 dollars a month and it sorts your medications for you. There was a guy on this commercial who was so excited. “Finally! I can organize my 29 medications!”
Keenan: Man, I don’t want to assume his issues but I’ve got a three month program for him to get off all those meds. Use CBD, start moving, and start the Wim Hof method. For those who don’t know, Wim Hof is just a breathing technique that combined with ice baths, helps your health.
If you go on the website for Wim Hof, people are healing from the craziest things. There’s a guy who had Parkinsons and needed 12 medications and still was not functional. He started Wim Hof, and reduced to 2 medications with full function.
There are great, almost free methods out there for really improving your health. Little things. Hell, take one unhealthy food and cut it out of your life forever. Soda, ice cream, bread, just pick one!
I haven’t had soda since high school, and even with all the benefits of youth, I still remember how much worse I felt when I drank soda regularly. There are a thousand things you can do to improve your health. Maybe cutting soda is too difficult for you, but maybe you eat a lot of McDonalds even though you don’t even like it that much. Start making a sandwich for yourself instead.
Effort is a big part of it for sure, but let yourself do a few things that are easy for you. Get some small wins.
Tom: I think you really hit the nail on the head with the Wim Hof method. I do the breathing technique and the cold showers every day. Another thing you mentioned, I saw a podcast with Joe Rogan and Laird Hamilton, and Laird talks about the three devils of food: White flour, white sugar, and white milk.
When you look at an alcoholic, whose liver has been destroyed, it’s from the sugar. It is the same in children. Children have liver disease, from the sugar!
Keenan: Kids today are getting fatty liver disease. If you told a doctor that 10 years ago, they’d say that kid is raiding his parent’s pantry and drinking alcohol. But it’s the sugar.
Tom: They’re putting sugar in milk! But back to the Wim Hof method. The cold therapy is boosting your immune system. It’s activating your biology.
Keenan: I think this circles back to the CBD again too in that we need to access our ancestral wisdom. Do you move your body? Do you use ancestrally discovered plant medicines when needed? Are you well adapted to heat and cold? Over time we paint this picture, and the environment humans lived in was just the world. It provided all these necessary stressors without humans having a choice.
I think CBD fits into this picture when you have a unique problem. You’re stressed out because your village burned down. It fills in a space where the environment isn’t enough.
Now, the environment we’re in has all sorts of holes. Why not use these plants and these old remedies instead of the harsh pharmaceuticals.
There’s a great book called the biology of belief that show that the things you experience and believe, and your environment, including the psychosocial environment, turn on or turn off your genes. A single human cell will change based on the environment it’s in.
The whole picture of your environment causes your health to change. You reflect that. I think that’s why so many people who live beyond 100 years old have powerful close knit communities. A huge reason we don’t all live that long is that we don’t have good community any more.
I’ve never heard of someone who lived beyond 100 where people said “they didn’t have any friends.”
So I’m saying, maybe the fad diet isn’t what you need. I’ve met people who’ve done every healthy diet, haven’t touched vegetable oils in 10 years, but they’re still unhealthy. But you look deeper, and they’re always complaining about their marriage or they don’t like their career.
Tom: Sure, there’s a ton of fears in there. If you’re in an abusive relationship, the fear is you’ll be without income if you leave. All these things play out in their head so they stay. There’s fears associated with everything you discussed. It’s in human nature to take the shortcut. We do the Nutrisystem diet or weightwatchers instead of doing the hard thing and doing the research and making our own path.
It’s harder, maybe, (I don’t think so personally) to do the shopping, do the wim hof method. But these are natural, free things. Breathing is free, at the moment, until they learn how to tax it.
Keenan: I think when you pursue challenging things, you have this compounding effect of seeing yourself as braver. Don’t do unnecessarily dangerous things, but in my experience, getting off the beaten path and doing things in the realm of the unknown builds you up.
I am very lucky. I haven’t feared being off the beaten path since I was fourteen. My dad had me homeschool for a year, I studied buddhism deeply, and then I did a 30 day backpacking trip when I was 16. These experiences just showed me there’s all this bounty to forging your own way, but most people have never left the herd and are afraid of the unknown.
There’s risks to paving your own way. It’s not trivial, but I think many people know in their heart that if they truly challenged those things, they’d be happier. I’ve never met someone who left an abusive husband that said “I left, and I had no income, and I wish I hadn’t left him.” I know people who still have no income after leaving an abusive relationship, and they are happier.
One of the most compromising forces there is is to never dare, to never see how much power you really have to live and pursue a dream.
Tom: There’s a great book out there by Brené Brown called Daring Greatly. I’ve read all her books and she came out with a quote that said “We are the most obese, drug-addicted society that ever was.” In daring greatly, she quotes Teddy Roosevelt’s speech “The Man In The Arena.” Teddy talks about critics. The man who fails over and over and over again, but gets back up, is the one daring greatly, fighting the good fight. There’s always critics. They’re the ones who are fearful and pointing the finger.
Keenan: People who blame the world for their problems want you to do that with them.
Tom: Misery loves company.
Keenan: It absolutely does, and there are good reasons to be miserable, but no matter how healthy or rich you get, there will always be reasons to hate life. I think it’s a choice. Well, really it’s a habit. You choose over and over to take responsibility.
I mean look at you, you’ve had this life that has been all over the map. You could go on any of these summit ascents (climbing the tallest peak on each continent) you could die on any one of them and you’ve done six!
What’s more, you didn’t start until the second half of your life! Everything you’re doing, people look at and think you can’t even start if you aren’t in your twenties, and you didn’t start until
Tom: My fifties. I didn’t start until my fifties. Having my health is why I can. If you have your health, you can do whatever you want to do, whenever you want.
Keenan: It sounds almost like you’re saying that your health is not a question. The dream is all that matters. Everything else will work to make that dream happen.
Tom: You know me and you know that’s absolutely true. The dreams are clear, and my body will heal itself so I can do these things I am set on. I really believe that, you know, if you’re a scientist they say your telomeres are shortening and that’s how they know you’re aging. Mine are getting longer. I believe that down to my DNA.
When I’m done doing what I need to do on this earth, then I’ll go.
Keenan: Bruce Lee talks about breaking through your plateaus, and says it’s all in your beliefs. He says “I don’t believe in limits.” It’s exactly right. The only real limitation is self placed.
At this point in the interview, my Wifi unexpectedly disconnected. We decided not to re-record the interview, as much of it is off the cuff and we felt it was a good stopping point. Thank you for reading and stay tuned for more interviews with The Life Wrangler, Pilot, and CEO of Total Motion 360: Tom Fabbri